; )

on the other hand, you can effectivly judge her spiritual age, and in light of her abuse and buffet of mental instability it’s not surprising she did an amazingly iggnorant thing. and really that’s what she was- more than cruel or heartless -she was simply iggnorant to an energetic puppies needs, or what happens in the pound. iggnorance iggnorance iggnorance.
of course she could have said “this dogs to difficult, lets put an add in the paper” but giving him to the pound, not knowing about thier needles of doom sounds surpringly warm hearted in comparison to the teethsmashing middle schooler she was only a few years prior.

all in all i think her adult awareness and spiritual growth and self relection is more than most people can boast. to lament your former iggnorance is better than bleating about someone elses to all your sheep friends.

so i tip my hat to you, V, for rising above human lameness and growing a set of balls you now share with the cyberworld.

It is not something you ever ‘get over’ and it is never ‘just a dog’. You don’t have to know an animal personally to feel compassion for a life that you took responsibility for.

My boyfriend said it best:

“I would give up ever having a pet if it meant no one else could have one either.”

I agree that the breeder/seller had some responsibility. Even a brief lesson on animal care or a book on crate training might have saved that dog’s life. It can head off the rationalizations people make when they do things like this.

I see a lot of different concepts being all mixed up in your statement and you have put a lot of words into my keyboard. I never once stated anything about whether or not something makes something else ‘ok’… I never once stated anything about forgiveness…

Yet you insult my intelligence by building those strawman and then burn them to argue against something else I did not say… I never said she should not have done this this.

I am not sure if you did not take the time to read what I actually said or if you are just so emotionally charged over the issue that you can not see past it, but let me try to clear it up a little.

Does she hold personal responsibility for what she did? Absolutely… as she tell us she does.

Is this something that (as you said) “Teenager or not, when you get past magical thinking and you can differentiate between living things and non-living things, you should not do this.”

Absolutely… as she tell us in her own words.

Does ‘repenting’ from doing evil make it ‘all better’ or make a difference to the ‘creature’ that you did it to? Absolutely not… and you are the only one claiming she (or I) say it is.

So what is it I really did say…

What I said is that the person we are now is not the person we were then. A claim that she IS a bitch because she WAS a bitch is a claim that people are not capable of learning, of growing, of changing. If that is true, then lets just give the death penalty to anyone who ever does anything wrong once they are past the age of ‘magical thinking’… since, by your logic, they can never be more than that mistake, why bother keeping them alive?

If you killed and ate a baby when you were a teenager and in the past 10 years you have come to truly understand how horrible that was, you are still accountable for the harm you cause at that time and should be held as such. But that does not mean that the person you are NOW is the same horrible person you were then. That just means that you will now be paying for the mistake you made then.

You throw around the concept of forgiveness as if that is something any of us can ‘give’ her … no one can give her any forgiveness since none of us are the ones she wronged.

So she is still responsible for her actions, but there is absolutely nothing she can do to change the outcome. She can not fix it for that creature, but perhaps by telling the story, she can help someone else not make the same choice… perhaps the learning she has done from that episode have influenced decisions in her life so that she did more ‘good’ than she would have otherwise. We have no way of knowing that.

I do not presume to say I know who deserves to be ‘forgiven’ and who does not … forgiveness is not my job or pervue. I do feel very strongly that people are responsible for their past actions as well as their present. But that does not stop me from understanding that people change and grow.

And when someone decides to take personal responsibility, even when it shows the darker sides to their past, instead of pretending they never made these mistakes, I can feel some empathy for them. Even some respect for the maturity that takes… and none of that means that I lack empathy for non-human animals…

In case all of that is not clear, let me put it in brief form.

I do not feel that she has no responsibility for the choices she made. I simply do not feel that someone should be considered a bitch for something they did 15 (or so) years ago at an age that is 5-10 years before their brain is even physically finished forming. Unless they currently do not think they did anything wrong… but that is not the case or this conversation would not even be happening.

I tortured, killed and ate a baby. But I was a teenager back then and I know now it was wrong. Am I forgiven? Is it all ok?

Fouling up YOUR life when you are a teenager is fine by me. Go for it. Cut yourself today to see if you can still feel.

Fouling up anyone else’s life when you are a teenager is not ok. Not acceptable. Yes, you can repent, but the living creature who’s life you destroyed can’t feel the same.

There is a difference.

Or is there? Torturing an animal is a bad thing, but still can be forgiven, since the value of the life of an animal can be measured in dollars?

Can you feel empathy towards non-humans?

As an omnivore I would’ve understood if she would’ve eaten the dog, but a complete waste is just plain wrong. It would be hypocritical for me to say that all killing of animals is wrong. I accept killing for your needs. Hunting for food = good. Sports hunting = bad. Killing a suffering animal = good. Killing an animal because you are too lazy to tech the animal = very bad.

Teenager or not, when you get past magical thinking and you can differenciate between living things and non-living things, you should not do this.

Did they miss the part where she said she was a teenager when she did it?
Did they miss the part where she said she knows what she did then was wrong?
Did they miss the part where she feels so bad about what she did that she found herself in avoidance mode even trying to write it in an annon. blog?

How about the very clear message where she clearly would never do anything like this again?

What exactly is the take home message here? That we will ALWAYS be the same person we were at 18? Or is it that if we did do something we regret, we should bury it deep inside us and never admit to it?

What a screwed up sense of priority someone must have to castigate someone for owning up to something bad they did, taking personal responsibility for something that was obviously painful to remember and talking about it out loud instead of admiring the personal strength it takes to look into those dark corners and learn from our regrets instead of wallowing in self pity and making excuses for all the reasons it was not her ‘fault’.

Gaaa… sometimes the internet gives me hope for humanity and then other times it points out how judgmental, petty and small minded some people can be.

Forgiveness and Atonement are the ultimate weapons to defeat evil. Evil thoughts attempt to lead us into suffering all of the time. With forgiveness and atonement, evil has to start all over again and with less of an advantage.

I want to thank V for sharing such a stark and honest story. It touched me deeply.

What would I have done in similar circumstances? Depends on when. Right now with 40 plus years of experience under my belt, I am confident my response would have been more noble.
When I was eightteen? With my wild temper and lack of impulse control at that age, my response would probably have been significantly more cruel than V’s.

-From the Ravings of the Psychomancer

My husband and I are small hobby breeders of only one breed … We are RESPONSIBLE breeders. We were told about this blog because someone who purchased a puppy from us and who has kept in touch with us more than 10 years, was so moved by what happened to Sandler.

Unfotunately this is not the first time we’ve heard similiar stories. Of course it is a horrible thing for someone to do, but a portion of the responsibility lies with the breeder/seller of Sandler.

Responsible breeders question the reason why someone wants a puppy, they investigate the living conditions before someone brings the puppy home, they promise to be a resource for the buyer if there are problems AND most importantly, they will require that the puppy be returned to them AT ANY time if the owner can’t cope. Had Sandlers breeders been more responsible, this tragedy may not have happened.

Buying a puppy should never be like buying a couch.

Please support responsible breeders by buying your family pet from people that …

1). show to AKC championships proving the quality of their stock. People will say that championships are not important if they only want a pet, but it shows the breeders commitment to their breed in general, not that they just happen to have a male/female of the same breed.
2). test their dogs genetic health with the proper screening for their breed. hips/elbows/eyes/cardiac/thyroid/knees … etc.
3). evaluate HONESTLY the temperament of their stock - personality including separation anxiety issues are 75% genetic, not just environment.
4). sell their puppies on contracts, including spay/neuter contracts and limited registrations
5). members of breed/all breed/ and National breed clubs
6). can recite the history, purpose and standard for their breed.
7). willing to share positive AND negatives about the breed.
8). raise their puppies to be the best they can be by stressing socialization.

Or rescue a dog like Sandler from a shelter.

Thanks,

EAMTFD